PORK MAGAZINE INTERVIEW WITH DERK RIGGS, THE ARTIST BEHIND IRON MAIDEN'S CLASSIC COVERS
I had the privilege to interview Derek Riggs for PORK magazine #12, that was published back in 2012.
SEAN: I was reading in one interview you were talking about military grade nerve gas ending up in your house in reference to the Thatcher being attacked piece for Maiden's "Sanctuary". Were you taking the piss or is there more you'd be interested in talking about? I know Iron Maiden's themes were heavily laden with conspiracy/New World Order references, from Wrathchild to Powerslave.
DEREK RIGGS: Where did you read that interview? No I wasn't taking the piss, She tried to have me killed with nerve gas. After I survived that I was told that it was a hit by the British secret service by a US Navy SEAL who found out about it on the grapevine that they apparently have. He thought it was wrong that they should do this over a picture that I did. They teach Navy SEALs ethics, something that they don't teach English politicians, it seems. After he told me that, he said that I wouldn't see him again because it "would be bad" for his career to be seen with me. I also knew some US Air Force people who stopped coming over to see me at the same time for the same reasons. I am bad company, too bad for US Navy SEALs. The pathetic thing is that I am not very political, the bloody picture wasn't even my idea, it was the manager’s idea, I just painted the bloody thing. (Well the layout was my idea taken from the song lyrics, making it Thatcher was the manager.) So really they hit the wrong person. The progress of my health has been monitored quite closely by someone in the British government since then. I think they want to know the long term effects of the nerve gas, or maybe how I survived it.
Thatcher tried to kill a number of people the same way. In England they called it "M.E." or "Yuppie Flu" because it only hit young, professional, left-wing oriented people, mostly men. A bit socially specific for a virus don't you think? And they never found a cause for it, but a lot of people wasted away and died from it. There were never any recorded cases after they deposed Thatcher. She was never voted out of office, she had actually just recently won an election but she was removed from office and the politicians (her own party members) were calling her things like "despicable" and "that dreadful woman" but they never actually said why she had been deposed. Later I found out that she was under permanent house arrest for the arranged killing of an African diplomat. Now they are trying to deify the fucking bitch in a movie... I don't really want to talk too much about that in interviews, in case the bastards come back for a second go. I have already been warned off suing the British government by someone in a suit.
This has nothing to do with anything that Iron Maiden wrote, their ideas come from comics, movies and novels. Not from any experience of real life. And they don't know or care about anything that happens to me. First about the pesticide thing. That was the cover story for the nerve gas. I used it when I didn't want to talk about nerve gas because people never believe any of that, they think the world is all sunshine and fluffiness and little pink bunnies, also they think I actually care enough about what they think to make up stories to impress them. Some people have enormous egos about themselves for no good reason that I can see. I only ever tell the truth about anything, mostly based on my own actual experience. Unless someone is trying to kill me over it...
The company that the government went through were I.C.I., a big Dutch chemical company, they were trying to turn the nerve gas into a viable pesticide for use on crops. So I got hyper-sensitized to the whole chemical range. So now i have trouble with even tiny amounts of pesticide in things like bread and wheat (which actually has quite high levels sometimes). So actually both stories are true. it hit my system so hard that my body was severely weakened so then I got mercury poisoning from the fillings in my teeth and had to have all my fillings changed for something else. So then I was kind of hyper-sensitized to heavy metals as well. Toxic metals are quite common components of paints, so I had trouble with paints. which I one reason why I had to stop painting and use computers. Shit, what a life... If I had made up a story like this, even I wouldn't believe it.
SEAN: You said, "There is only one qualification you need to become an artist and that is to paint pictures that other people like enough to pay money for. Everything else is bullshit!" You are known for your commercial art work, do you do personal work?
DEREK RIGGS: Yes, I don't see any difference. I paint pictures for a living. I work for anyone who pays me what I ask for. Sometimes I do just what they ask for, sometimes I get to do something that I like. I paint and draw pictures for many people, some of them have been fans, some of them have been musicians for CD covers, some of them have been for bigger commercial clients.
SEAN: When you first realized you were going to be an artist, what sort of career or works did you have in mind? Has your career matched your expectations?
DEREK: I really never did make a decision like that, there was no realization, it was more of an evolution. It happened gradually. I didn't make career plans, being an artist really isn't like that. you can't really make plans, you just get on with the next thing. There isn't an employment structure that you can move up or down within. You just get on with the job in hand. I started out painting sci-fi but I wasn't that good at it back then, also shortly after I started doing it, the movie Star Wars came out and the whole sci-fi book market fell apart. These two things happened at about the same time, I don't know if they were related though. Publishers who were publishing forty books per month suddenly were only publishing two or three, so the market just fell apart overnight. So I moved into record covers (vinyl only back then, no CDs). The covers were bigger and I got paid more and I got to do a wider variety of styles instead of just rockets all the time. You can read more about this in the book Run For Cover, The Art of Derek Riggs which is available from my website www.derekriggs.com
SEAN: Speaking of books, I heard you are working on a horror novel, is that true?
DEREK: Yes, it's turned out to be a very slow thing, I am most of the way through it. I am currently trying to make enough money to take the time off to finish it. I think horror fans might find it quite entertaining. I am going to try to find someone to make it into a movie, that may not be so easy though.
SEAN: You've switched to doing mostly computer-based artwork, you've mentioned in other interviews the benefits being speed & less fussy materials, what are the downsides?
DEREK: Well the downsides are that the style isn't constant; sometimes it doesn't look as good as a painting. Paintings look more coherent. Sometimes 3D can look really crap. I am trying to make it look better but it's taken a while. It's tempting to try to 3D model things that I can do faster by hand, but then if I have a modeled background it can be hard to make things sit in the picture right. In some ways it's better, in some ways it's worse. Sometimes it can look really great and everything fits in just right. It can also enable me to do things that I would not attempt using paint. Paint can be a real pain in the ass as well.
SEAN: There is a lot of desire from Iron Maiden fans & most likely fans of any music genre for the artists who illustrate the various albums to be fellow fans of the band. You are famously not an Iron Maiden fan & this presents a very difficult conundrum in the mind of the Metal Maniac, because so much of the culture is about being "true" & "destroying posers". However, I don't think anyone can argue that you were the wrong artist for the job because the whole visual came from you in the first place & your work fits perfectly. So, it comes down to a conflict between a professional who can do the best job & the fan who might have the most "feeling" for the work. Thoughts?
DEREK: Ooh look, a can of worms... OK here's the actual situation. This is your reality check, pay attention... A poser is someone who does or says things that may put him in a position which is contrary to his or her true inclination or beliefs. I never said I didn't like metal, when I was younger I was a metal fan. as were all of my friends. Actually we called it heavy rock back then (early to mid 1970's). I said I was an ARTIST. I PAINT PICTURES. That's what I do for a LIVING. I am a PROFESSIONAL COMMERCIAL ARTIST. I enjoy painting sci-fi and horror and other weird stuff. Sometimes my ideas fit into people's music, sometimes not. It just worked out that I ended up painting rock covers, that's nice for me (mostly). But if I didn't end up painting album covers it would not really have changed the kinds of things that I paint. Or the kind of music I listen to. I DID say that I didn't really like Maiden's take on metal, but then I didn't like Zeppelin back in the 1970's either. I liked other bands like Sabbath and Uriah Heep and Golden Earring and the Groundhogs and Hawkwind and a bunch of other stuff.
What about the metal fan who works washing dishes in a restaurant or filing lawsuits in a lawyer’s office or in the military driving tanks or fixes computers at Staples? Are they all posers because their job description is not a part of the heavy metal world view? No of course they aren't, neither am I. Do you know how many people really live the "Rock&Roll lifestyle?" Not very many who are still alive... Even the metal bands play the music and then go home to the wife and kids. They go shopping in the supermarket and sleep in on Sundays. They don't slay dragons and devils in defense of truth and honor, they don't save the world from evil politicians or bad religions. They play the music, they sell the merchandise and then they go home and watch the TV. THAT'S what they do. Do you really think that Ozzy is the "Prince of Darkness"?... No of course he isn't, don't be wet! Do you really think that back in the 1970's Zeppelin used to worship the devil? No, of course they didn't. It's all bullshit, they said it to sell records and get laid more often. Oh, and remember my definition of a poser? :)
And whilst I am on the subject, Having a little rant about other people's bullshit, here's a good one... I don't hate metal fans, some of my friends are metal fans. I don't personally hate Maiden, or metal musicians in general and I don't hate metal music. That was all started back in the 1980's by none other than Iron Maiden. Back then they used to get lots of requests for interviews with me. They didn't want me to get as famous as them, because they are really quite selfish people, and they wanted to keep my artwork all to themselves. So they used to deny all interviews without ever telling me about it (I found out afterwards from people who used to work with them). By way of explanation they would tell people a bunch of deliberate lies about me being a recluse and a bit mad and that I hated all people and all metal fans and all metal music. I mean really, where else would it all have come from? I didn't start it, and it wasn't in any interviews, because Maiden wouldn't let me do any back in the 1980's. Did the fans make it up on their own? Why would they do that? This was a deliberate attempt to isolate me from the metal community and to damage my career. Since then they have tried on several occasions to materially interfere with and damage my career. And then they lie about it afterwards. I have had several people come back to me and tell me what they did. It isn't all sunshine and love down at the Maiden camp, in fact I couldn't find much at all. Actually I don't hate anyone; I don't have the time for it. And I certainly don't have the inclination. Somebody made all the hate shit up and stuck it onto the internet and it's been swirling round and round the internet like a huge bullshit tornado ever since, because nothing on the internet ever goes away. Even if it's complete crap. I just set out to paint some good pictures, sometimes I did OK.
About the pictures. There is very little difference between a professional artist and an amateur one. The only differences are the amount of experience the professional may have and that the professional gets paid and the amateur doesn't. All professionals started out as amateurs. If the picture is the right picture, and you think it is good enough, then use it for your metal cover. And then pay the artist. if you are an artist spending all of your free time doing metal covers and you are giving your artwork away then that's your problem, maybe you should get some more respect for yourself and your art. And stop being such a patsy, do you think the metal bands are giving away all the merchandise royalties to charity? No, of course they aren't. Get some proper return for your work. Really though, If you seriously think that "fan art" is good enough to use on a professional level then you deserve everything that happens afterwards. There's a lot of bands out there who try to do that kind of thing and then wonder why they don't make any money...
SEAN: That's a shame about Maiden. Well, let's talk about things you like! What are some of your favorite books, movies, records, that sort of thing?
DEREK: Yes it is a shame, that all could have been so much more fun. What do I like? Well I recently re-read some books from years ago like Dune by Frank Herbert, and the Necroscope series by Brian Lumley. And I am still trying to finish the Saga of the Seven Suns by Kevin J. Anderson. I just finished a few books by Jack McDevitt. Right now I am reading a book about angels, because I went looking for something else and that was on the shelf instead, so I bought it. I really like all the new Marvel movies about Spiderman and Iron Man and Captain America, I wasn't too fond of the first Hulk movie though, it was a bit like the bad Japanese horror/sci-fi movies where it turns out to be really all about the director’s relationship with his dead mother or something, and not anything really to do with the Hulk at all. I also really like the Thor movie and I am seriously looking forward to seeing the Avengers movie. Oh yes and Prometheus. The prequel to the first Alien film. I listen to all different kinds of music, from the metal and other rock music I used to listen to when I was younger, to ambient electronic music and other weird stuff, up to jazz and dance music. I also have some reggae, and some theramin music from the 1900's and some very early electronic music from the time before there were any synthesizers, when they had to build the gear as they went along. I recently got a CD of music played on the Novachord. it's played on a restored model of the very first modern style synthesizer, it was made back in the 1920's by the Hammond organ company and it's made of all vacuum tubes, hundreds of them. But it kind of sounds like shit (in a slightly wonderful way), no wonder they only made 150 of them. Probably the weirdest CD I have is the sounds of x-ray machines working. At first it just sounds like buzzing, but then you start to hear all these delicate textures in there that are constantly changing. One time I was in a furniture store in New Mexico and the air conditioner was broken and it was making the strangest howling, whistling scraping noise, so I just sat on a couch and listened to it for a while. Someone came over to me to see if I wanted to buy a couch, I had to explain that I didn't want anything and I was really only listening to the sound of the air conditioners. I am trying to convert my art room into a music studio. I thought I would make some more music. I make some kind of synthesizer stuff, it's usually a bit strange, but it's fun to do. Once I made some pop music, It was a bit mentally disturbed I think. I really like weird pop music, the kind of really strange and quirky stuff that they used to make back in the 60's and 70's, they don't make that kind of thing any more, everyone is too fucking well up themselves trying to be "cool" all the time. So I tried to make some, it ended up a bit fucked up, but it made me laugh...
SEAN: Since we're on the subject of Maiden, I have to ask an Eddie question, even though I wasn't going to, just because the topic has possibly been exhausted, but I was reading that when you first painted Eddie in Electric Matthew form, he was a bit of a commentary on the wasted youth of Punks or something along those lines, as well as you working on creating a genuinely scary character using a Lovecraftian contrast of a realistic, normal street with a ghoulish figure rending reality with his terrifying nature. Is Eddie a sympathetic character?
DEREK: No, Eddie isn't sympathetic, he just kills things all the time. He doesn't give a shit, he's just angry about stuff. He screams and he bawls like a big baby, he lashes out at the world around him with his mad, insane impotent rage and tries to destroy everything he sees. BUT NOTHING EVER CHANGES, NOBODY EVER CARES.... STUPID ROCK STARS GET RICH, GOOD PEOPLE SUFFER AND DIE.... that's life, suck it up.
SEAN: You called Eddie your "Frankenstein's Monster", your creation that gained independence & pursued you to the ends of the earth. This is an issue for anyone who creates, the Frankenstein connection can relate to the creation of children, art or the atomic bomb. PORK has a particular obsession with Frankenstein & I was excited to see you make this connection. I feel that it has something to do with the question earlier where I asked about the relationship between what fans expect from your art & who you are as an artist & then you as an individual.
DEREK: Well, I am an artist, I create stuff. All kinds of stuff. Sometimes you might like it, sometimes you might not. I don't care, I will make it anyway. And if it bugs the shit out of you, then I will do it again. I don't know what fans expect from my art, they never tell me. There is no feedback between me and any fan base that may exist. Artists don't really create things for other people, that's a myth, or a fantasy, or just some personal bullshit they tell themselves. They do it for themselves, because it's what they want, or need, to do. It's a response to an inner drive not as a reaction to the external world. If other people like it, then that's cool. If not... oh well.. never mind. And then they go home and do it some more.